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Human Rights Abuses in Iran are Severe
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Joe Stork is deputy director of Human Rights Watchs Middle East and North Africa division. Before joining Human Rights Watch in 1996, Mr. Stork co-founded the Middle East Research & Information Project (MERIP) and served as chief editor of Middle East Report. Rooz had talked with Joe Stork about the current situation of human rights in Iran.
Fariba Amini (Amini): Having been in this position for a number of years, how do you assess the current human rights situation in Iran?
Joe Stork (Stork): I think the situation is terrible. Looking back, the state of human rights in Iran has been a problem for many years, a real crisis, even dating back to the Shah’s time. But I think the situation today is particularly bad because we are seeing the level of confrontation between the state, the government, and the very large sectors of population; it is quite severe. So I would say the scale of arbitrary arrests, though not unprecedented, is certainly bad. I don’t think we have seen certain phenomenon, such as show trials and so forth, stand out. They are similar to the 1980s when show trials were pretty common in the Islamic republic. The fact that we are seeing it again is very worrying.
Amini: Why do you think the regime is using such violent tactics? It seems to me the tactics are similar those used in the early days of the Islamic Republic. Then there were systematic mass executions and now the torture and killings seem somewhat random.
Stork: Well we can’t and should not compare the two periods. If you look at the different periods, (and I have worked for HR Watch since 1996, more or less coinciding with Mohammad Khatami's presidency) the situation today is very serious, the worst it has been. There have not been mass executions; there have been a number of unexplained deaths of demonstrators in the streets, as well as people who have been in custody and unaccounted for. We are probably talking about several dozen in total, as compared to hundreds in the 1980s, so I am not sure whether it is correct to make the comparison. In terms of killings, yes, it was a lot of worse, but that is no comfort today when you have this severe oppression going on and you have people challenging the regime, unlike 20 years ago. Iranians are challenging the abuses on a massive scale.
Amini: In your opinion, why such a violent reaction? Is it a backlash to the massive demonstrations?
Stork: I am speculating here. This is really a question to pose to a government spokesperson, but I have to say that it is a response to the very considerable popular challenge that has been mounting in the wake of he contested presidential elections.
Amini: What are some of the forms of torture documented by HRW since the election unrest?
Stork: There have been cases of rape, solitary confinement, threats to the prisoner and his/her family members, etc. But mainly severe beatings have been reported in most cases. We do not have any reports about possible electro shocks but that doesn’t mean it has not taken place.
Amini: What is HRW Watch doing at this point?
Stork: HRW is doing what it has been doing and what it customarily does: namely, we try to document the abuses and serious human rights violations; we try to publicize them; we do advocacy with the authorities to urge them to cease the violations and to protect human rights. We also do advocacy in other forms with the UN in New York and Geneva; we document everything, and all our findings are available on our website.
Amini: I am sure you have heard of Mohmmad Javad Larijani, head of Iran’s High Council for Human Rights who said recently in Geneva that there are no torture and abuses in Iran?
Stork: Well, this is rather fantastical. You have to ask what universe this person is living in and what country he is living in, to claim that there are no abuses; either he is blind or he is lying or he just does not know what abuse is.
Amini: Was there a presence of HRW at this meeting?
Stork: HRW was not in the room at the time but we have a presence in Geneva.
Amini: What do you think ordinary citizens can do to help organizations
such as HRW?
Stork: Obviously we appreciate support from all corners, including financial support in order to continue what we are doing. But I think the most pertinent question is what Iranians can do to help the protesters and to expose the government abuses in Iran. We have seen a number of occasions where Iranians and Americans have been in the streets in this country protesting and raising their voices, particularly when Ahmadinejad was in New York. Obviously raising issues with American law makers and with the US and international media are ways to support our efforts.
Amini: What do you think the US government, especially the Obama administration, should do to ameliorate the situation?
Stork: It is a good question but it doesn’t have an easy answer. There are some limits to what the US can do, primarily because it has no working relationship with the government of Iran. It doesn’t have any relations to cut off. You know better than me that there is a lot of baggage when it comes to Iran-US relations. The US has had a terrible role over several
decades, dating back to the military coup in 1953. So In light of that history, there is a limit to what the Obama administration can do in terms of the pressures it can exercise and what may help the situation. There are issues of sanctions or punishment, various measures that are being introduced in the US senate to cut off gasoline imports, etc. In my
opinion, these kinds of measures are not the right way to respond; it will only hurt the people, not the government. On the other hand you have other bills that are being introduced to provide for American individuals and companies to send software and communications technology to Iran; this would help break the government’s embargo on information and help circumvent the Iranian government censor. These kind of measures have not been acted upon as of yet, which is too bad.
Amini: Since you also work on other parts of the Middle East, how do you evaluate the situation in Iraq? Are there still human right abuses and to what extent? Is torture going on? Is it better today than before the invasion?
Stork: It is different. There are plenty of human rights violations that are going on today. The general insecurity of people and the general vulnerability of many Iraqis is worse than it was before. On the other hand, the degree of authoritarianism has lessened, but now the problem is random violence; the indiscriminate acts carried out by militias or armed
groups which are a threat to lives. Before 2003, arbitrary rule of the secret police was much more selective.
Amini: Is there torture in Iraqi prisons?
Stork: We have reason to think so. We have been able to visit the detention centers a few times. The last time was in 2006 and there was definitely a problem then. We have no reason to believe that it has ceased today; whether it is as widespread or not I cannot say. I can tell you that the UN Assistance Mission to Iraq, the UNAMI group which puts out a
report every year, does note the continuous torture in detention centers. It is still a serious problem.
Amini: Have you ever asked to visit the Iranian prisons?
Stork: We have asked to go to Iran but have never been given a visa to even enter the country, let alone visit its prisons.
March 8, 2010
Fariba Amini
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